Courtesy of MGM and a local publicist, Greg Wright recently had the opportunity to talk with actor Jeremy Davies, who plays the emaciated POW Gene in Werner Herzog’s Rescue Dawn, now out in theatres. Christian Bale takes the starring role in the film, but Davies’ Gene ends up being perhaps the primary nemesis of Bale’s Dieter Dengler—in spite of the fact that both are American POWs in a Laotian jungle. And Davies inhabits his role perhaps deeper than any other actor in the film.

Over his ten-plus-year film career, Davies hasn’t opted for “easy” roles or projects that amount to paid exotic vacations. Instead he has tended to work with mavericks, inconoclasts, and heavy-hitters like David O. Russell (Spanking the Monkey), Steven Spielberg (Saving Private Ryan), Atonia Bird (Ravenous), Steven Soderbergh (Solaris), Lars von Trier (Dogville, Manderlay)—and now, Werner Herzog, the director made legendary for his mind- and will-breaking epic Fitzcarraldo, among other projects.

Greg spoke with Davies over the phone.

Enjoying the press tour?

Jeremy Davies: Yeah, as much as I can possibly enjoy self-promotion—which is one of my least favorite things.

I’m sure.

JD: I am. But it’s good to support Werner, for sure.

And as far as the business end of things go, does this more resemble chaos or vacation?

JD: This is far more the chaos, yeah. But it’s a privilege to take part in the chaos; let me be clear. And thank you for your support of the film, and of Werner.

Well, people my age, we go way back with his films now.

JD: You’ve been following him for a while?

Oh, yeah. All the way back from the ’70s. It’s been an interesting journey, and interesting seeing how his films remain the same in terms of thematic content, but then seeing how he’s matured and changed as a filmmaker. It’s interesting.

JD: Yes. To say the least.

For me, personally, I thought going into Rescue Dawn, “Wow. It looks like maybe he’s finally determined to make a commercial, mainstream film this time.” I don’t think that’s what he made.

JD: Yeah, that’s a really good point, Greg. I thought that, too. I think what’s really compelling about this film is that it’s Werner Herzog harnessed with the closest thing he’ll ever come to a typically mythical structure—a heroic journey that’s much more universal in its structure and story. This is the closest he’ll come to that, simply because it’s the truth. It’s what really happened to his dear friend. And the motivation, the impetus for doing this for Werner was, above all, to pay homage to his dear friend—who just happened to have this story that, if, on its own, was fiction, Werner wouldn’t be drawn to at all. It’s not non-linear enough for his very sideways-thinking mind.

Now, in one of the other interviews that you’ve done promoting Rescue Dawn, you mentioned that you felt that the production itself, in its removal from civilization, was rather “Fitzcarraldo-esque.”

JD: Yes.

Would you like to expand on that a bit? What kind of— You mentioned in another interview that I heard that you didn’t have a trailer or anything. But were there more privations than that? To what extent did Herzog go to replicate the prison camp environment?

JD: Well, Greg, I said “Fitzcarraldo-esque” for a number of reasons. There were a number of extremes that we experienced. Well, first, the obvious parallels. [Werner]’s back in the jungle once again, telling a story, as you’ve pointed out already, that’s similar thematically. It’s this collision of man against nature, once again; but also the chaotic energy on the set was tipped much more toward the energy that has been made famous in the documentary about the making of Fitzcarraldo. I think the conditions [on location] were very intentionally set up to be just like the [actual POW] camp, just as Dieter described experiencing it. To begin with, that I feel is something that I endorse quite profoundly. I’m very behind it being a set that is removed from— You know, this film could not have been shot on a studio backlot. And the last thing that any of us wanted was to— Above all, we wanted to honor what Dieter went through, of course, but [also] what every soldier went through—or goes through—in any war. And the last thing we wanted to look like was a content, well-fed, and pampered Hollywood actor who had just walked from his trailer five feet off-camera. So there are certain realities that are very necessary; and I don’t think it was taken to the extent of— Certainly nothing— It wasn’t taken too far. Let’s put it that way. We didn’t have luxuries, mainly because the budget was so low. So we didn’t have trailers. But we were okay hanging out with it. Again, because we wanted to honor what every man and woman in uniform goes through.

In that respect, I thought Rescue Dawn was very unique, because it neither tried to Rambo-esque the experience, nor turn it into some manifesto against war. It seemed to want to just relate the experience for what it was, and let people draw their own conclusions.

JD: Yeah, that’s well said, Greg. Of course, when I first read the script, one of the first questions I had for Werner was about the obvious parallels that he could have chosen, as a filmmaker, to underline and emphasize— That is, the obvious political parallels to what is going on today. And I can assure you that Werner turned out to be one of the most apolitical people I’ve ever met in my life. He really had no intention or desire at all to make any references, veiled or otherwise, to what’s going on today—or to make any statement about that particular unfortunate war. Not that there’s such a thing as a “fortunate” war.

No. Not at all.

JD: But yeah, that’s well said. And another thing about the Fitzcarraldo-esque chaos: the environment that Werner is inclined to, I would say, encourage or create is one that is open to a little less control, a little more chaos—but in the best sense. I should be a little more specific. I’ll give you an example, which you may have read about as well. I’m actually much more comfortable on a set where there is disagreement.

Like with David O. Russell.

JD: Yes, exactly. Did you read about that? Did they print that?

Yes, I read about that in another interview you did about Russell, who has his own reputation as being “difficult.”

JD: Right. To me, that’s where I come from. But I think it’s very necessary—at least in filmmaking—to create a process that gives permission to disagree with your director.

Where there’s actual work going on, as opposed to just connecting somebody else’s dots.

JD: Right. Exactly. Not trying to— There are some filmmakers who are more comfortable having their actors come and hit only the notes that they hear in their [own] heads. And that works for some. But I like to collaborate, and Werner is certainly open to that. And in being open to others bringing things to the table, you obviously have less control and more tendency toward something resembling chaos, which we certainly had our fair share of.

I have to imagine that the higher the budgets get, the higher the control factor tends to come to the fore.

JD: Exactly, Greg. Yeah. There’s a lot more of filmmaking by committee—but the wrong kind of committee, you know. Those who aren’t actually around the set. But I’m very comfortable with the kind of budget we had—and I’ve come from the subterranean filmmaking background.

So did you actually spend nights sleeping in shackles, just for the experience?

JD: No, I resisted the overwhelming urge and temptation to somehow… But, no. I had, I guess you could say, my more emotional and psychological shackles. I tend not to be one who can kind of take it easy, and have a laugh and go relax when I’m off set. I’m usually pretty fiercely focused on the burden that I feel—the privilege and the burden—and don’t want to let the filmmaker down. In this film, as in another film about war that I was in, Saving Private Ryan, I felt this tremendous sense of obligation to be authentic and not, as I said, look like a pampered Hollywood actor. So no literal shackles, but closer, maybe, to psychic shackles. But nothing that Werner himself imposed.

You mentioned earlier that you felt Rescue Dawn was a continuation of the man vs. nature paradigm that Herzog has investigated, at the very least. But this one, to me, felt more like he had modulated his view of human nature so that it was less man vs. nature than man learning to take advantage of his true nature—which is the same as nature—to become one with it, to an extent, or… Because Dengler finds something within himself that, obviously, Gene doesn’t. It almost seems as if Dengler represents humanity in its purest sense, which is that we have this capacity to live in the jungle and survive. We don’t have to fight it. Am I reading that correctly, or do you think I’m seeing something that isn’t there?

JD: No, I think it’s there, and that’s well said. I think it’s a fantastic question for Werner, and one that I’d love to hear him answer—and for Christian, too. I kind of picked up on that interpretation as well. That’s definitely one way to look at it. I’ve actually heard Werner question along the same lines, and that’s why I’d love to hear his answer. In the enigma of Werner Herzog, he has a tendency of answering in a different way every time.

As it should be. He’s not the same man that he was thirty years ago.

JD: Yeah, exactly. But even in the course of a press junket, you can see him answer [the same question] in a variety of different ways. And I think, partially, it’s just kind of wanting to leave it so that the individual, like you, can take what—And in some cases, like with the quote on the back of [Gene’s] jacket, he asked me to leave it ambiguous and not try to explain it too much. He has some developing theories along the lines of what you were talking about, but then I hear him say things that go back to what he was saying about the jungle in Fitzcarraldo as well.

There was a line in the movie that I thought plays into your career track and your ambitions, and what you’ve said you want to accomplish. When Dengler talks about watching the fighter strafe Dresden, I think it’s Steve Zahn’s character who says that’s really weird: “A guy tries to kill you and you want his job.” That’s kind of your experience, isn’t it, as an actor working with directors?

JD: That’s well said. Yeah, as a matter of fact, beginning with a pretty intense “film school” with David O. Russell—hands down, one of the most brilliant cats around, but also pretty intense. So I’ve been through—yeah, you’re right—pretty much my share of creative crucibles, and it’s only made me want more to— Yeah. Well pointed out. From the very beginning—and maybe because I have no prior connection to the business, never expected anything, and was floored to get Spanking the Monkey—I appealed to David for an “insurance policy,” and said, “Teach me everything you know.” I like to know everything that goes on because I want to be a filmmaker one day myself. And that was before I even knew what kind of story I wanted to tell, or what I actually believed in myself, as an individual. But, yeah. I’ve been renegotiating the reality of every film-acting experience since then, and turning it into a privileged four-dimensional film school of sorts.

And in another great turn of phrase that you’ve used elsewhere, feeling like you’ve “won the interplanetary lottery.”

JD: Exactly. And that’s something that’s kept me really grounded, because when you’ve struggled like everyone else—and have many dear friends who I think are far more (or at least as) deserving of having a good agent fighting for them, or getting a chance at one of the films that I’ve done, but don’t get anywhere because of the competition and because it’s such a brutal business that “eats its young”—I’ve always been strongly tethered to that reality. And I wouldn’t even say that’s hyperbolic, comparing it to an interplanetary lottery. Because it really is pretty intense competition. And it’s a hard science to figure out, Greg. You don’t go to a school to learn how to navigate the science of this business—the business side of show business: representation, and publicity, and self-promotion, for heaven’s sake. I’ve failed every course in that, Greg.

Well, you’re doing pretty well today.

JD: Well, that’s probably because you’re my first interview! It’s all downhill from here. Now, I don’t want to sound like I’m “playing a violin,” here. But I realized very early on that I just don’t have the ideal nervous system for this business, and I would really just love to go and make films. But there’s so much you have to fight through to get your chance to.

You have to haul your own personal boat over the mountain.

JD: That’s right. That’s exactly right. That’s what it feels like sometimes.